1
00:00:09,448 --> 00:00:17,517
♪♪

2
00:00:22,793 --> 00:00:23,862
[ SIGHS ]

3
00:00:37,793 --> 00:00:40,586
WELL, WE WERE QUITE SCARED
TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH,

4
00:00:40,689 --> 00:00:44,000
AND...THIS IS REALLY --

5
00:00:44,103 --> 00:00:46,551
YOU KNOW, FOR SOMETHING LIKE
THIS TO HAPPEN IN A SMALL TOWN

6
00:00:46,655 --> 00:00:49,482
LIKE THIS,
YOU JUST CAN'T BELIEVE IT.

7
00:00:49,586 --> 00:00:52,379
Woman: THREE PEOPLE ARE DEAD
FROM MULTIPLE STAB WOUNDS,

8
00:00:52,482 --> 00:00:55,827
AND STATE POLICE ARE CALLING
THEIR DEATHS A HOMICIDE.

9
00:00:55,931 --> 00:00:57,965
AT THIS POINT IN TIME,
WE HAVEN'T DETERMINED WHO IT IS,

10
00:00:58,068 --> 00:01:00,310
SO WE DON'T KNOW
WHERE THEY MAY BE HEADED TO.

11
00:01:00,413 --> 00:01:07,344
♪♪

12
00:01:07,448 --> 00:01:16,275
♪♪

13
00:01:20,965 --> 00:01:22,689
[ EXHALES SHAKILY ]

14
00:01:44,413 --> 00:01:48,620
♪♪

15
00:01:54,551 --> 00:01:56,655
Man: THERE'S A THING INSIDE
OF ME, IT'S LIKE...

16
00:01:56,758 --> 00:01:58,724
THE APPETITE.

17
00:01:58,827 --> 00:02:00,827
IT'S LIKE A WOLF THAT'S...

18
00:02:00,931 --> 00:02:04,586
FILLING...THE HUNGER.

19
00:02:04,689 --> 00:02:13,310
♪♪

20
00:02:13,413 --> 00:02:20,379
♪♪

21
00:02:28,862 --> 00:02:30,275
Detective: OKAY, OKAY.

22
00:02:34,689 --> 00:02:36,103
[ DETECTIVE LAUGHS ]

23
00:02:39,068 --> 00:02:46,413
♪♪

24
00:02:54,655 --> 00:02:56,103
[ SIGHS ]

25
00:03:02,517 --> 00:03:11,137
♪♪

26
00:03:37,137 --> 00:03:40,448
- Detective: I'M SORRY?
- BILBO BAGGINS.

27
00:03:40,551 --> 00:03:44,172
BY BRINGING TOLKIEN INTO
THE CONVERSATION, HE'S, UH...

28
00:03:44,275 --> 00:03:46,896
WELL, HE'S DEFLECTING
IN A LOT OF WAYS.

29
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,172
HE'S SORT OF LEADING THEM DOWN

30
00:03:49,275 --> 00:03:52,586
A PATH THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO
WITH WHY HE WOULD BE THERE.

31
00:03:52,689 --> 00:03:54,655
I THINK AT THE CORE OF

32
00:03:54,758 --> 00:03:58,620
THE PSYCHOPATHIC PERSONALITY
IS THE DESIRE TO CONTROL.

33
00:03:58,724 --> 00:04:02,551
YOU LEARN TO MANIPULATE VERY
WELL AND TO NOT FEEL GUILTY

34
00:04:02,655 --> 00:04:04,206
CERTAINLY ABOUT MANIPULATING.

35
00:04:04,310 --> 00:04:06,620
YOU CAN OFTEN GET
MORE INFORMATION FROM

36
00:04:06,724 --> 00:04:09,000
A PSYCHOPATH IF YOU'RE WILLING
TO BE FLEXIBLE IN

37
00:04:09,103 --> 00:04:10,172
YOUR INTERVIEW --
IN SOME WAYS,

38
00:04:10,275 --> 00:04:12,758
LET THEM TAKE CONTROL
AND LEAD THE INTERVIEW,

39
00:04:12,862 --> 00:04:14,620
AND THEN WEAVE IN AND OUT
AND TRY TO GET

40
00:04:14,724 --> 00:04:16,068
MORE INFORMATION THAT WAY.

41
00:04:23,620 --> 00:04:27,724
NO, I CANNOT THINK
OF ANY GOOD REASON

42
00:04:27,827 --> 00:04:30,172
SOMETHING LIKE THAT
COULD HAPPEN.

43
00:04:30,275 --> 00:04:33,758
THE IDEA THAT HE WOULD SHAKE
HIS HEAD, YES,

44
00:04:33,862 --> 00:04:36,206
WHEN HE'S SAYING NO
IS ANOTHER TELL.

45
00:04:37,655 --> 00:04:39,758
NO.

46
00:04:39,862 --> 00:04:41,586
A LOT OF TIMES,
DURING INTERROGATIONS,

47
00:04:41,689 --> 00:04:44,758
PEOPLE'S BODY LANGUAGE RUNS
CONTRARY TO WHAT

48
00:04:44,862 --> 00:04:46,793
THEY'RE ACTUALLY SAYING.

49
00:04:46,896 --> 00:04:49,034
Tussey: WHAT OFTEN,
IN MY EXPERIENCE,

50
00:04:49,137 --> 00:04:52,310
MAKES PSYCHOPATHS
BETTER AT LYING

51
00:04:52,413 --> 00:04:55,206
IS THE GLIB
AND SUPERFICIAL CHARM THAT

52
00:04:55,310 --> 00:04:58,517
THEY'RE ABLE TO USE
AS PART OF THAT.

53
00:04:58,620 --> 00:05:01,034
THEY COME ACROSS
VERY LIKABLE.

54
00:05:09,965 --> 00:05:16,965
♪♪

55
00:05:28,620 --> 00:05:32,413
♪♪

56
00:05:41,517 --> 00:05:43,068
...AND HE HADN'T HEARD ANYTHING.

57
00:05:45,551 --> 00:05:46,827
MM-HMM.

58
00:05:46,931 --> 00:05:56,310
♪♪

59
00:06:00,724 --> 00:06:02,000
Detective: MM-HMM.

60
00:06:12,965 --> 00:06:17,793
♪♪

61
00:06:25,241 --> 00:06:28,689
Tussey: UH-OH -- AT THIS POINT,
HIS STORY HAS CHANGED,

62
00:06:28,793 --> 00:06:32,000
AND IT'S NOT UNCOMMON THAT
INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE

63
00:06:32,103 --> 00:06:34,689
PSYCHOPATHIC OR OVERLY
CONFIDENT IN THEIR ABILITY

64
00:06:34,793 --> 00:06:37,862
TO JUST SHIFT AND -- AND
FOOL THE OTHER PERSON THAT

65
00:06:37,965 --> 00:06:39,068
THEY'RE TALKING TO.

66
00:06:39,172 --> 00:06:43,000
SO HE'S NOT VERY APOLOGETIC
ABOUT CHANGING HIS STORY.

67
00:07:11,827 --> 00:07:16,758
♪♪

68
00:08:15,793 --> 00:08:19,241
MOST ANIMALS, WHEN THEY'RE
CORNERED, ATTACK, COUNTERATTACK.

69
00:08:19,344 --> 00:08:21,965
DEPENDING ON HOW PRONE
TO VIOLENCE THEY ARE,

70
00:08:22,068 --> 00:08:23,275
THEY MIGHT BECOME VIOLENT.

71
00:08:23,379 --> 00:08:26,310
THEY CAN ALSO RESORT TO WHAT --
WHAT HAS BEEN REFERRED TO

72
00:08:26,413 --> 00:08:29,000
AS KIND OF THAT PSYCHOPATHIC
DOUBLE TALK.

73
00:08:29,103 --> 00:08:32,137
THEY'RE REALLY SORT OF
JUST WRAPPING WORDS AROUND

74
00:08:32,241 --> 00:08:35,827
SORT OF AN EMPTY VESSEL AND
TWISTING IT INTO A PRETZEL,

75
00:08:35,931 --> 00:08:37,896
AND THEY LEAVE YOU TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT WHAT IT IS

76
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,517
THEY'RE SAYING.

77
00:08:57,413 --> 00:08:58,482
ALL RIGHT.

78
00:09:10,689 --> 00:09:12,862
I THINK HE PROBABLY IS
AWARE IT'S GOING

79
00:09:12,965 --> 00:09:15,517
TO BE VERY TRICKY
TO GET OUT OF DNA,

80
00:09:15,620 --> 00:09:16,793
AND IT'S POSSIBLE

81
00:09:16,896 --> 00:09:19,551
HE'S ALSO THINKING,
"YEAH, IT'S OKAY.

82
00:09:19,655 --> 00:09:20,724
"THEY THINK
THEY GOT ME THERE,

83
00:09:20,827 --> 00:09:23,275
BUT I'LL STILL FIND ANOTHER
WAY TO GET AROUND THIS."

84
00:09:29,586 --> 00:09:30,517
MM-HMM.

85
00:09:43,241 --> 00:09:48,000
♪♪

86
00:10:01,448 --> 00:10:04,448
Berrill: I THINK PSYCHOPATHS
TEND TO BE GOOD LIARS.

87
00:10:04,551 --> 00:10:07,793
THEY CERTAINLY DON'T FEEL
A SENSE OF GUILT, AND DEPENDING

88
00:10:07,896 --> 00:10:08,827
ON HOW BRIGHT THEY ARE,

89
00:10:08,931 --> 00:10:10,931
YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHEN
THEY CAN MESS UP.

90
00:10:44,482 --> 00:10:46,758
[ SNIFFLES ]

91
00:10:50,034 --> 00:10:51,620
[ SNIFFLES ]

92
00:10:54,551 --> 00:10:55,724
Detective: YEAH.

93
00:11:03,965 --> 00:11:07,517
Tussey: I AM STRUCK BY WHAT
APPEARS TO BE SHALLOW AFFECT,

94
00:11:07,620 --> 00:11:09,517
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE TRAITS
OF PSYCHOPATHY.

95
00:11:09,620 --> 00:11:11,724
AND THAT'S SORT OF,
"OH,

96
00:11:11,827 --> 00:11:13,724
"I KNOW SOMETHING BAD'S
HAPPENING OR SAD,

97
00:11:13,827 --> 00:11:16,793
SO I SHOULD CRY,
SO I'M GONNA CRY."

98
00:11:16,896 --> 00:11:20,965
THERE'S NOT A LOT
OF DEPTH TO HIS,

99
00:11:21,068 --> 00:11:23,448
YOU KNOW,
APPARENT SADNESS HERE.

100
00:11:32,241 --> 00:11:33,551
RIGHT.

101
00:11:40,034 --> 00:11:41,206
Detective: OKAY.

102
00:11:46,827 --> 00:11:48,000
Detective: UH-HUH.

103
00:11:54,344 --> 00:11:58,931
♪♪

104
00:12:04,724 --> 00:12:05,931
[ SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY ]

105
00:12:06,034 --> 00:12:14,551
♪♪

106
00:12:14,655 --> 00:12:18,482
♪♪

107
00:12:47,793 --> 00:12:50,758
IT'S AN EXALTED STATE FOR SOME,
THEY'RE LIKE GOD FOR THAT

108
00:12:50,862 --> 00:12:53,103
MOMENT, BECAUSE, REALLY,

109
00:12:53,206 --> 00:12:54,620
IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
A MURDERER

110
00:12:54,724 --> 00:12:56,586
OR SOMEONE
WHO DOES SERIAL KILLINGS,

111
00:12:56,689 --> 00:12:59,655
THEY HAVE THE CAPACITY TO
DETERMINE WHO'S GONNA LIVE

112
00:12:59,758 --> 00:13:02,517
AND DIE, SO THERE'S SOMETHING
GOD-LIKE ABOUT THAT.

113
00:13:02,620 --> 00:13:06,034
YOU'LL SEE THIS --
THIS GRANDIOSITY,

114
00:13:06,137 --> 00:13:11,206
POMPOUSNESS, AND SMUGNESS
ABOUT WHAT IT IS THEY'VE DONE.

115
00:13:37,965 --> 00:13:39,034
Detective: WHAT MADE YOU
CONTINUE?

116
00:13:48,724 --> 00:13:50,275
Berrill: ANOTHER PERSON MIGHT
HAVE SAID, I KNOW WHERE

117
00:13:50,379 --> 00:13:52,896
HE LIVES,
I'VE BEEN INVITED IN.

118
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,758
I'M GONNA HANG OUT,
I'LL COME BACK

119
00:13:54,862 --> 00:13:57,862
ANOTHER DAY AND REVISIT THIS,
YOU KNOW?

120
00:13:57,965 --> 00:14:00,586
BUT -- BUT HE FELT
COMPELLED TO STAY

121
00:14:00,689 --> 00:14:01,758
AND KILL THREE PEOPLE.

122
00:14:01,862 --> 00:14:09,310
♪♪

123
00:14:21,068 --> 00:14:24,137
Tussey: I THINK IT JUST
SPEAKS TO HIS CALLOUS

124
00:14:24,241 --> 00:14:25,862
LACK OF REGARD FOR HUMANITY.

125
00:14:25,965 --> 00:14:28,551
HE MADE UP HIS MIND.
HE HAD A GOAL.

126
00:14:28,655 --> 00:14:30,172
HE WAS GOING
TO TAKE JEFF OUT,

127
00:14:30,275 --> 00:14:32,172
AND THE REST IS JUST
COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

128
00:14:32,275 --> 00:14:34,172
IT'S TOO BAD
THEY HAD TO BE THERE

129
00:14:34,275 --> 00:14:37,068
IS -- IS THE ATTITUDE
HE SEEMS TO PORTRAY.

130
00:14:37,172 --> 00:14:40,068
Berrill:
FOR THE PSYCHOPATH,

131
00:14:40,172 --> 00:14:42,896
THEY TYPICALLY KNOW
BASICALLY WHY

132
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,482
THEY'RE DOING WHAT
THEY'RE DOING,

133
00:14:44,586 --> 00:14:47,275
BUT HIS EXPLANATION

134
00:14:47,379 --> 00:14:52,034
IS INTELLECTUAL, AND TO ME,
IT DOESN'T HOLD WATER, REALLY.

135
00:14:52,137 --> 00:14:54,448
IT DOESN'T TIE IN
AT ALL TO

136
00:14:54,551 --> 00:14:57,137
THE AMOUNT OF RAGE
THIS GUY REALLY HAS.

137
00:15:03,482 --> 00:15:04,896
OKAY.

138
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,413
SURE.

139
00:15:08,137 --> 00:15:16,517
♪♪

140
00:15:27,068 --> 00:15:28,137
[ SIGHS ]

141
00:15:28,241 --> 00:15:29,448
IT'S ALL RIGHT.

142
00:15:39,034 --> 00:15:44,482
♪♪

143
00:15:44,586 --> 00:15:51,896
♪♪

144
00:16:01,068 --> 00:16:02,793
Berrill:
IT IS COLD AND CALCULATED,

145
00:16:02,896 --> 00:16:05,448
AND THERE'S NOT EVEN
PSEUDO-EMOTION.

146
00:16:05,551 --> 00:16:09,068
NATURALLY, HE'S GOT TO GO BACK
IN AND KILL A LITTLE BOY

147
00:16:09,172 --> 00:16:11,620
AND THE OTHER GUY HE DOESN'T
EVEN KNOW SO NO ONE CAN

148
00:16:11,724 --> 00:16:14,206
IDENTIFY HIM, AND THAT'S...

149
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:16,655
YOU KNOW,
THAT'S A REAL BIG LEAP,

150
00:16:16,758 --> 00:16:20,448
AND -- AND OFTEN THE FIRST KILLS
ARE BIG LEAPS.

151
00:16:20,551 --> 00:16:22,896
THIS IS WHERE HE SEEMS
MOST PSYCHOPATHIC TO ME.

152
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:37,862
♪♪

153
00:16:37,965 --> 00:16:44,689
♪♪

154
00:16:50,034 --> 00:16:51,275
AND...

155
00:16:59,517 --> 00:17:01,758
[ EXHALES SHAKILY ]

156
00:17:15,827 --> 00:17:21,724
♪♪

157
00:17:43,344 --> 00:17:48,758
♪♪

158
00:17:59,896 --> 00:18:01,344
Detective: YEAH.

159
00:18:01,448 --> 00:18:03,551
YOU REALLY ONLY MET HIM --
IT WAS THE VERY FIRST TIME...

160
00:18:04,896 --> 00:18:06,137
YEAH.

161
00:18:07,965 --> 00:18:11,068
Tussey: I THINK THERE ARE
MOMENTS OF CANDOR HERE.

162
00:18:11,172 --> 00:18:13,620
IT'S -- IT IS POSSIBLE

163
00:18:13,724 --> 00:18:16,103
THAT THEY CAN HAVE MOMENTS
WHERE THEY

164
00:18:16,206 --> 00:18:18,517
ARE EVEN APPALLED
BY THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR.

165
00:18:18,620 --> 00:18:20,965
NOW HOW LONG OR HOW DEEP

166
00:18:21,068 --> 00:18:23,379
OR HOW THAT MOMENT OF
RECOGNITION REALLY STANDS

167
00:18:23,482 --> 00:18:25,586
WITH THEM --
THAT'S -- THAT'S THE QUESTION.

168
00:18:49,793 --> 00:18:53,000
PSYCHOPATHS TEND TO USE
JARGON IN WHATEVER SITUATION

169
00:18:53,103 --> 00:18:56,379
THEY'RE IN TO EXEMPLIFY
THEIR VAST KNOWLEDGE

170
00:18:56,482 --> 00:18:58,241
AND INTELLIGENCE,

171
00:18:58,344 --> 00:19:02,448
AND I FIND IT'S THE GRANDIOSITY
WITHIN THEM THAT SNEAKS OUT

172
00:19:02,551 --> 00:19:04,517
AND WANTS TO USE
THAT LANGUAGE AND VERNACULAR

173
00:19:04,620 --> 00:19:06,448
IN WHATEVER CONTEXT.

174
00:19:08,965 --> 00:19:10,896
Detective:
YOU DID. ALL RIGHT.

175
00:19:22,689 --> 00:19:26,724
♪♪

176
00:19:36,137 --> 00:19:37,206
Detective: OKAY.

177
00:19:38,413 --> 00:19:40,689
[ INHALES AND EXHALES HEAVILY ]

178
00:19:45,103 --> 00:19:46,482
Detective: YEAH?

179
00:20:14,655 --> 00:20:18,827
Tussey: PSYCHOPATHS ARE
MOST OFTEN NOT REMORSEFUL.

180
00:20:18,931 --> 00:20:21,344
I THINK IT MAKES IT
A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT

181
00:20:21,448 --> 00:20:24,793
FOR THE MAJORITY OF US
TO WRAP OUR MIND AROUND

182
00:20:24,896 --> 00:20:26,689
HOW HE COULD ENGAGE
IN THOSE ACTIONS

183
00:20:26,793 --> 00:20:28,551
AND BASICALLY SHOW
NO REMORSE.

184
00:20:28,655 --> 00:20:33,896
♪♪

185
00:20:37,793 --> 00:20:40,068
Detective: ALL RIGHT? UM...

186
00:20:42,551 --> 00:20:43,965
- OKAY.-OKAY?

187
00:20:47,758 --> 00:20:49,931
Ormsby: OKAY.

188
00:20:52,241 --> 00:20:54,724
YOU KNOW,
THERE IS NO PAROLE IN MAINE.

189
00:20:56,172 --> 00:20:58,137
HE WILL DIE IN PRISON.

190
00:20:58,241 --> 00:21:00,551
Woman: UPON RECEIVING HIS
SENTENCES FOR STABBING TO DEATH

191
00:21:00,655 --> 00:21:04,137
JEFFREY RYAN, HIS 10-YEAR-OLD
SON, JESSE, AND JASON DEHAHN,

192
00:21:04,241 --> 00:21:06,862
ORMSBY DID NOT SHED
A SINGLE TEAR.